BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luse, and you're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, a show about what's happening in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. And listen, I am so excited. My moment has finally come. That's because Beyonce's "Renaissance" tour film debuted last weekend. It topped the box office, and all y'all who slept on the tour this past summer are finally tasting what you missed out on.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "RENAISSANCE: A FILM BY BEYONCE")
BEYONCE: Welcome to the Renaissance.
(CHEERING)
LUSE: I saw the very first show in Stockholm, Sweden, back in May, and I have been waiting for more than half a year for y'all to get to see this. Can someone please pass me another microphone? Because we have things to talk about.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "RENAISSANCE: A FILM BY BEYONCE")
BEYONCE: It's a new birth. I hope you feel liberated. But the Renaissance is not over.
(Singing) Everybody.
LUSE: I saw the film last Friday with B.A. Parker, one of the co-hosts of NPR's Code Switch.
OK, so I'm at the AMC Lincoln Square in Manhattan.
B A PARKER, BYLINE: (Laughter).
LUSE: As I was saying when I was coming in, I do not typically go to the Upper West Side on Friday night.
PARKER: But it's the IMAX. It's, like, the biggest IMAX in whatever.
LUSE: I saw it with her, No. 1, because she's my legit, real-life friend, but also, conveniently, a fantastic film critic, and she hadn't seen the tour live. I wanted to see it with someone who was going to have the fresh eyes.
PARKER: Beyonce is wonderful. I cried for Uncle Johnny. Blue did great. All the fits - fantastic. At some point she did kind of look like Randy Savage. But besides that (laughter)...
LUSE: I love it, though. I love it, though.
PARKER: Oh, it was fantastic.
LUSE: When the film ends, the credits make it very clear who is in charge.
Written by Beyonce.
Directed by Beyonce.
Produced by Beyonce.
Starring Beyonce.
And that's what Parker and I are getting into today. A film by someone that is literally about themselves. What's in the movie is just as telling as what isn't. And we think that Beyonce, a woman who is known for her perfectionism and self-curation, is speaking just as loudly with what she shows as what she doesn't.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: B.A. Parker...
PARKER: Hi, honey.
LUSE: ...Welcome back to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE (laughter).
PARKER: Thank you. It's a pleasure.
LUSE: It's a pleasure to have you. And I'm so excited to get into what we're going to be discussing today - the "Renaissance" film. I don't even know - what is the official title? - oh, "Renaissance: A Film By Beyonce."
PARKER: You think that's the official title?
LUSE: "Renaissance: A Film By Beyonce" is the official title of the film.
PARKER: What was "Homecoming" called - "Homecoming: A Film By Beyonce"?
LUSE: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: Yeah, that's actually what it says - "Homecoming: A Film By Beyonce." So now that we've established the true title of the film, let me back up. I feel like, overall, what I watched was well done, high quality. It also definitely, absolutely captured the spirit of the experience of seeing it live in concert. I felt like there was also a very effectively employed narrative throughout the documentary itself...
PARKER: For sure.
LUSE: ...That, like, definitely got my attention. I feel like one of the big takeaways that I had from the film was, like, Beyonce as executive producer. She was trying to show us just how good she is, and she is damn good at having a vision, communicating that vision and then executing it.
PARKER: And still having people not listen to her while she's trying to be a boss.
LUSE: Yes.
PARKER: Can I ask you something, though?
LUSE: What?
PARKER: What did you learn that was new?
LUSE: So there was this moment early on in the documentary where she's using footage from a concert where they lost sound and, like, part of the power went out, and there was this kind of, like, disaster, basically, on stage which would have prevented the performance from going on.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: And you see her sort of, like, go under the stage. And she's trying to figure out, like, OK, what song are we going to start with? Am I going to change into my costume? We have, like, three minutes or whatever. It was a very short period of time to be able to get everything back and moving. And the way that she was able to have that problem get fixed in such a short period of time and be able to move on to pretty much a seamless show - that impressed me. I was impressed at just how - even, like, when the show went off-course, they had all these contingency plans to get things back on. She is such a professional when it comes to performance and the precision of her performances. Like, there's a very famous cut in the "Homecoming" documentary where the entire - every performer on stage does, like, a jump turn...
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: ...And their costumes change from - I think, from yellow to pink or pink to yellow - whichever. And I didn't realize that was that big of a deal when I saw the documentary. But my husband, who's a documentary film editor, was like, wait, wait, wait...
PARKER: It's hard.
LUSE: ...We have to run that back. He was explaining to me how, like...
PARKER: It's so precise.
LUSE: ...They would have had to rehearse. Yeah, it's so precise. They would have had to rehearse not just the choreography and the set and all the logistics, but, like, every single camera angle, the speed at which the cameras are moving, the camera tracks, all the dolly tracks. Like, everything would have had to be exactly precise. And she had so many more cuts like that in this documentary, which I was expecting.
PARKER: Yeah, 'cause I remember the whole, like, "Diva" sequence...
LUSE: Yes, that's it was.
PARKER: ...Was so good because it implemented that same idea.
LUSE: Yeah. Yeah. What, to you, felt new in what you were watching?
PARKER: The massiveness of the tour. This took four years in the making. And then I was like, damn, we ain't never going to get a Part 2 or Part 3.
(LAUGHTER)
PARKER: I was like, when - I'm like, this took four years. Like, we not - there's going to be three more presidents before we get this next album. I think what I love about Beyonce is the same thing that kind of frustrates me about her 'cause she's so curated. So you - like, I know everything and nothing at the same time.
LUSE: You said that right when we came out of the movie (laughter).
PARKER: I feel like she has bared her soul and said nothing. I was like, I think something profound happened. I can't tell you what it was. Like, she no longer has to do interviews, which, I mean, bless her 'cause interviews.
LUSE: I have different thoughts about that, but continue. I'll share them, but continue.
PARKER: But because it is so curated and so from her perspective, she doesn't have to be accountable for anything because she's in control of it.
LUSE: Bingo. One of the things I've been thinking a lot about in her not wanting to do interviews and things like that - she's a person who requests, continuously, inordinate amounts of the public's time, money, adoration, support and by not ever engaging with the press at this point.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: And, like you said, having every single interaction with the public, like, sanctioned and designed by her.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: It's like she's requesting all of these things from the public, but there's no way for us - for her to be held accountable for anything. To me, after a while, I feel like it can also absolutely harm your brand as well.
PARKER: I mean, like, as a fan, I mean, I don't find it satisfying. I mean, I know that, you know, she's on social media and that she's aware of, like, what's happening in the zeitgeist and what's happening in the world or, like, even just, like, notes from fans. Like, maybe that's why we saw maybe, like, three moments with Jay-Z in the three-hour film.
LUSE: (Laughter).
PARKER: They were like, yeah, "Homecoming" was great, but less of him. So she was like, bet. This next one, we'll give you one scene of him talking and that's it.
LUSE: You could have thought she was a single mother from watching it, honestly.
PARKER: I mean...
LUSE: Like, you would have thought she had no husband.
PARKER: I've been raising these three kids alone. It's hard out here.
(LAUGHTER)
PARKER: They're like "Jumpin', Jumpin'" was the - was like a guidance book that you wrote for us. Leave your man at home.
(LAUGHTER)
PARKER: And so she's aware of - so, like, I don't know if you want to get political 'cause...
LUSE: I don't have any problem with that. I'm not scared of these people.
PARKER: OK. So, like, when we have what's currently happening in the world right now and, you know, her film premiered in Israel - for me, there was this very big shift of Friday night, you and I go to the film, have a great time; Saturday morning, wake up, you know, scroll through IG, of course, 'cause I follow all these Palestinian reporters.
LUSE: Yeah, a lot of Palestinian journalists sharing, like, you know, what they think are going to be their final messages on Earth.
PARKER: Yes.
LUSE: Yes.
PARKER: And then that night, seeing all of these videos from the Israeli premiere of people wearing the Israeli flag and singing, you won't break my - like, "Break My Soul." And...
LUSE: In the theater, yeah.
PARKER: In the theater. And, like, it becomes, like, this galvanizing cry within the theater. And I'm like, there is a dissonance. There's, like, a disconnect that all these people, like, Beyonce has this platform. People are dying. And they're like, well, she's a singer. She can't - like, she's just a performer. I'm like, yes and no. She's a person who has curated a space, has made herself a political figure, whether she likes it or not. I mean, is there a cognitive dissonance between - in her art that we don't want to dig deep in because she's Beyonce? Sure. I mean, the lady who dresses as a black panther on an NFL field and says, like, you just may be a Black Bill Gates in the making, which are two...
LUSE: Dissonant.
PARKER: ...Different things.
LUSE: Yeah (laughter).
PARKER: Like, but it's a vibe because you're like, I feel like I'm still going to dance to Beyonce.
LUSE: Yes, yes. But I have a theory for why it's so easy for this dissonance to happen. Like, she's trafficked these leftist political symbols, and...
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: ...There are critics of hers on the left and also critics of hers from within her fan base who are looking at what's happening with Israel and Palestine and feeling like, OK, your silence on this topic is not congruent with the political imagery that you have used in your work. And something that I have been thinking a lot about was like, OK, if this is Beyonce's statement, right?
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: What is she trying to say to us about not just herself, but also her politics? And I felt like I came away from - on Friday night, having watched the documentary - I was taking notes. And I was saying that, like, Beyonce's politic to me is very much about celebration. She used that word. Joy is a theme that comes up a lot.
PARKER: Safe space she said a lot.
LUSE: Safe space. Heal the world. It's - love. It's a lot of these very sort of brand-safe type of political messages. One of the words I wrote down was palatable.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: Beyonce's politics, as she puts them out through her art and through her public image, are very much based in celebration, joy and palatability. And the thing is is that if your political message is palatable, that usually means it's lacking specificity. And that's why if, you know, the song and lyrics, you know, "Break My Soul" are being co-opted by people whose politics are not, you know, what's considered leftist. I think that's because her political messaging is - always been so palatable and so general that anybody can project their values onto something that she's made. And I think that's what we've seen play out over, you know, the past weekend. And that's what so many of her, like I said, fans and critics have been engaging with.
PARKER: To be authentically yourself, to have an opinion that may get a response that some people may not love is OK. Listen.
LUSE: The thing is is, like, not only is Beyonce silent on matters of politics, she's also - as we've discussed, she's silent in general.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: I feel like - I don't know - she doesn't really do interviews with the public at all anymore. And for the most part, she doesn't really interact with us, like, at all unless she's trying to sell something.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: And one of the things that I keep thinking about is what is lost for not just the audience, but also, like, what the artist loses. I think that, like - I don't know - one of the things I've been thinking about a lot recently is that - and I was thinking about this before I saw the documentary on Friday - but, like, I'm getting to a point where I'm actually really irritated that Beyonce doesn't speak to the press anymore.
PARKER: (Laughter).
LUSE: She's like, I can - now "Lemonade" time, I could understand kind of 'cause it's like...
PARKER: Oh, for sure. That was...
LUSE: She was going to get...
PARKER: She was in her business.
LUSE: Yes. She was going to get asked all type of ignorant stuff. I do think, though, that, like, one of the things that I think helps to solidify a legacy is being able to coexist with critique. Part of what's made, like, the "Killers Of The Flower Moon" run-up, to me, so intriguing and interesting as a topic - it's not just the film, which I think is very well done, but it's also the fact that, like, Martin Scorsese has been out there talking about the film, however imperfectly, while also being able to exist alongside the critique around the film.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: And to me, even though I have some qualms about, like, the politics, the accuracy and the framing of some aspects of the film, I can see that there's enough value there...
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: ...That I want to critically engage with it, and I think that's what's happening. And I think, when you kind of cut people off from being able to actually critically engage with your work - which, technically, I think that's what she's doing by refusing interviews and also - not saying that she weaponizes, like, her - like, the hive, necessarily...
PARKER: Sure.
LUSE: ...But the hive is activated to also push back on critique of her...
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: ...In a way that I think is unhealthy. I think, ultimately, it is going to harm her legacy and kind of keep her in this place where she's merely a pop artist, when, actually, I think, creatively, she's much more than that.
PARKER: I was thinking about this earlier. I know what she's saying because she is very direct in what she's saying on camera, where she's like, (imitating Beyonce) this is for my fans. Being a woman in this industry is hard. Like, you know...
(LAUGHTER)
PARKER: (Imitating Beyonce) I'm tired of repeating myself. And then, like, (imitating Beyonce) I love my kids.
LUSE: (Laughter) This is - it's like, literally (laughter) like a Beyonce soundboard. You're absolutely right (laughter).
PARKER: Which is why the segment that was about Uncle Johnny...
LUSE: Oh, yes - like, her gay uncle who inspired this whole thing.
PARKER: Designed a lot of her clothes and inspired the tour, the album and everything - was - stood out the most to me and was the most affecting for me 'cause I - you know, like, I cried during it. Like, there was, like, something beautiful about it, but - and like - and being able to share that with the fans and, like, fans having signs like, Uncle Johnny made my dress. Like, there's, like, this beautiful legacy to it. And that is a political act. That is something that I don't know if she would have been confident enough to highlight years ago.
So it's clear that she knows what her platform can do and what speaking out can do and who that's for and being able to say, yes, this is a safe space. This is for queer, Black and brown folk - all folk to feel safe and be able to be their most authentic selves, even while, to push back, you're like, but then why did you invite Kendrick Lamar (laughter)?
LUSE: Now, see? Now, see - I did not...
PARKER: I'm sorry.
LUSE: I've been saying that. I've been wondering. No. I have been asking that question - why did you invite Kendrick Lamar? - who has been not a friend - thought of not - as not a friend to the LGBTQ community for at least the past year or so.
PARKER: I mean, he's trying, but, like, the man...
LUSE: But trying is not...
PARKER: Yeah, I agree.
LUSE: Trying and safe space don't come together. But yes, yes. I understand what you're saying.
PARKER: Yeah. But, like - so again, sometimes there is, like, a cognitive dissonance.
LUSE: (Laughter).
PARKER: Like, is Beyonce on the right side of history?
LUSE: Very often, no. Sometimes yes?
PARKER: (Laughter).
LUSE: But, I mean, I'm just thinking - well, I'm thinking even about her collaboration with, like, Tiffany and Co. Like, I mean, the - like, we've had some knowledge in the United States, especially among Black people...
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: ...How diamonds are made and where they come from...
PARKER: Listen.
LUSE: ...For some time. And so being, like, the first Black woman to wear, you know, X-Y-Z diamond from Tiffany - to me, it was a very twisted way of thinking about Black firsts.
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: She tries to be judicious to make the safest decision for herself. That's what I think.
PARKER: But safe decision for what?
LUSE: I think that you raise a very good point. This is somebody who knows how to use their voice. And so her strategic silence, whether with the press or in certain political moments where she feels like it may be "unsafe," quote-unquote, I think that her silence is also very telling. And as you said, like, after dabbling in political imagery, she is a political figure now, whether or not she wants that.
PARKER: Yeah.
LUSE: Well, Parker, thank you so much. I had a blast.
PARKER: Thank you. I had a blast, too.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: That was B.A. Parker, co-host of NPR's Code Switch. This episode was produced by Barton Girdwood and edited by Jessica Placzek. I'm Brittany Luse, and I'll be back Friday with another episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
LUSE: It was on all my report cards. All my report cards were like, talks too much in class. You want to know something? I want to go back and be like, how does it feel to silence a Black woman? Well, you didn't. Look at me now (laughter).
PARKER: And what are you doing now? Oh, I host a show on NPR.
LUSE: So I was actually giving you, actually, free labor. I was entertaining you and the class.
PARKER: I mean, you stifled - tried to stifle my future trajectory.
LUSE: That's what I'm saying. And look at me. I made it anyway, just like Beyonce (laughter).
PARKER: Oh, my God.
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